Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Morcrist]

yeh, no probs...topo going up...you'll have to cut that up though. It's 20K- and probably non square- something like 1 pixel out- 20,008 x 20,007. I can export tiles from Global Mapper...I tell you what I'll do...I'll export the files again from Global Mapper and then tile them for you in World Machine in a new project

Why would you export the files again?

The topo should be fine. I'll resize it to 20k even, cut it into 2.5k x 2.5k pieces then resize each to 5k to match the 5k height tiles you gave me. That should work out fine, right? I mean, assuming it's the same topo you used to guide the terrain creation.

Take care.

[monks]

I've got the following at 40K (5 x 8000) which will be going up over the next 2 weeks...it's a bit of a job, so I have to run the build and then the upload overnight- so two nights per map.
 I can't really build the WM project, what's more the maps in there are not all at 40K anyway- we use a make system so some things have to be resampled. I've also spotted some important missing rivers in our river map- which will be corrected next time.
 Topo
 Rivers
 Primary Roads
 Secondary Roads
 Tertiary roads
 Forests
 Wetlands

 I'll upload Rivers overnight.

 If you want the maps at 20K res instead, let me know. Rivers really have to be 40K though fore us- but if you're only using them for a visual guide you can use 20K ones..

monks

[Morcrist]

Whoa! You are too good to me, sir. I thought you might have meant something like this, but I didn't want to get my hopes up!

As far as what res, as always whatever is easiest for you. I'll upscale/downscale it to fit my needs and, since this is Minecraft we're talking about I don't think it's going to matter at those resolutions.

Thanks so much, monks.

[monks]

I hope this is ok. It's 8 bit grey bmp. I've still got the RGB files just in case these are not good. I've had to use Photoshop automation, which is new to me so I'm learning something in the process- should've been using this years ago!

http://www.skindustry.net/medem/files/Temp/Morcrist/Rivers.7z

monks

[Morcrist]

Hey monks. Now I know what you've been going through...I ran out of C: drive space unzipping these! Hah! All these damned image/map files! Heh heh.

Anyway, I opened up x2y3 (the Shire area) to check out what it looked like overlayed on the 40k 8 bit heightmap at that location...and it didn't line up.

I don't have time right now to stitch together the rest of the bmp's to see what's going on but just thought I'd let you know before you do anything else.

When I get home I'll dig into and see if I can tell what's wrong.

Base Tile @ x2 y3.
Rivers @ x2 y3.

[monks]

Your heightmap is 5120 x 5120. I'm guessing you made that change your end. The two tiles don't correspond. Is it because each one of your tiles has the extra pixels and is throwing the alignment out? I gave you the original heightmap at 5000- just checked the source tiles.
I wasn't aware you'd changed it.
 If you've still got 8x8 tiles, then the tile should fit if scaled up to 5120. How many tiles do you have?

 I have about 5 TB hard drives full of this stuff...I've got duplicates though, but there's vast amounts of it..:p

monks

[Morcrist]

Oh yeah, first thing I did was resize it. Well that's not true. First thing I did was copy it to the heightmap and notice it had a 60 pixel border all the way around lol. THEN I resized it! And I resized then 5000 x 5000's on my end because World Painter works internally with 128x128 pixel tiles. After importing I'd end up with a water border 8 pixels wide on the right and bottom of the maps that need to be removed before exporting. Instead, I just upsize each 5k tile to 5120 x 5120 before importing and it comes out perfectly to 40x40 World Painter tiles, no border to get rid of.

Anyway, check this out. I turned the rivers blue (to aid visibility) and laid them on top of the heightmap, same tile. x=2 y=3.



You can see from the terrain that the rivers don't have any correlation. I tried flipping and mirroring the rivers but no luck matching them  up.

I just got home so I'm going to check some of the other images out.

EDIT: Ok, I got lucky. Found the problem on the next image. It's offset by one in the y direction. I'll upload to show you....

Base x=2 y=3 tile.
River x=2 y=4 tile.
Combined.

So the rivers for x2y4 match up with the heightmap for x2y3!

Any ideas? I'll verify a few more and let you know.

EDIT: Ok, bleh. This is just weird. So far RIVER x0y3 fits with HEIGHTMAP x0y4, and RIVER x0y4 goes with HEIGHTMAP x0y3!

Got it. The y values are backwards. So while the heightmap tiles go from x0y0 to x0y7 and then x1y0 to x1y7 etc., the river maps go from x0y7 to x0y0 and then x1y7 to x1y0 etc.

So no problem. I can just rename the files and I'm good to go! Should work out well. I don't know what this means for your exporting workflow though. Heh heh?

[monks]

Oh balls...you should have mentioned the 60 px border.........I'll have to track down the pre-make terrain tiles. I'm not sure if I still have those...It should be a 120 border actually, since make frames the map with a 120 px border. @5120- yes it is.

 So the tile set should cover 120 + 5000x8 + 120 = 40,240 px. Can you verify that?

 Make always puts a border around it. It's a bit of a pain, and we're moving away from it- if we've not already done so for the next release.

 If I don't have them, one option is to build the World Machine terrain again. That ties my computer up for about 14 hours, and that's IF I'm lucky it builds first time. It crashes sometimes. I did have the project on my SSD and it proved to be a bit unstable- don't ask me why. It's now on C drive so it should be more stable for builds. But I think lack of hard disk space also makes it more unstable.

 There is another option. Merge the tiles in Gimp or PS, cut the border off and re-tile. The better option would be to re-tile them in World Machine because PS doesn't have tiling features, but editing them down into a workable input is going to be a royal pain...... Does Gimp have tiled output?...I think it has right? If you merge the tiles into say 4 x 20120 pieces. Edit them down individually to 20K. Save them out. Open them up as a single doc, then tile them out. That should solve it. That method might be easier on your system anyway if you can't do it all in one doc. This way you don't lose the work you've done so far.

 I'll let you know later if I still have them...WM building Helms Deep right now..

 monks



 

[Redrobes]

We have a lot of issues with this kind of thing. WM exports with Y going up and we want Y ascending going down. So we have to flip the order sometimes. Usually the tiles themselves have the correct pixel direction but the naming is opposite the pixel direction. In our system we have top left tile as 0,0 and top left pixel as 0,0 within each tile. If you have a 2x2 or a 5x5 set then you can manually do it but if you have more then its best to have a script to rename them.

[monks]

Yes, WM naming is quite annoying, and no other software I use uses that convention. It's possible that the tiles were flipped but I seem to remember you said it took you a short while to work out which way they were oriented, so I presumed you'd solved that. You'd know for sure if you hadn't because you can see them all in Gimp! We use a perl script here to flip the tiles from WM going into make, and I could always mod it to operate on bmp format. IF I find the tiles.
 I think the best bet is to edit them yourself, now you've got them oriented ok, and done the post processing you did on them.

hmmmm...don't think this will work either since Make has resized the tile set after adding the border?..is that right Robes?

monks

[Morcrist]

Oh wow. I do apologize. It seems I've completely given the wrong interpretation of the problem. My mistake!

Let me clarify. The river tiles were fine image wise. They were all 5000 x 5000, the same as the heightmap tiles.

The only problem was what Robes mentioned, the y order being backwards. I will rename them. It won't take long.

Again, I apologize! I remember mentioning in one of my previous posts that I'm an idiot, so it's not like you haven't been warned.



And if you care, what I MEANT was...since the heightmaps you gave me were only 5000 x 5000 and World Painter (Minecraft world manipulation program) expects things to be imported in nice 128x128 pixel chunks, I resized each 5000 x 5000 heightmap tile to be in multiples of 128, or 5120 x 5120. Nothing more than that really.

So yeah, river pixels are fine just the naming was backwards! But again I'll just manually rename them and I'm good to go.

No need to tie up your machine doing anything to "fix" this. Problem solved!

Sorry for the confusion!

[Redrobes]

Heh heh - So you know that 120 pixel border.... well we have tiles of 40960 with a 40000 image in them so we have 280 pixels on every side spare. Thats why we have a border. So we have 40x40 x 1024x1024 tiles not 40x40 x 1000x1000 tiles. Its a lot easier working in 2^n values so our dataset has to fit into the middle of it. Its not "Make" that needs the border but the apps that need 2^n sized tiles to work with. So your tiles are 4096+1024 sized or 5120 which is why you have the spare 120 pixels to manage ! Made be chuckle a bit there you adding it back on

[monks]

  ...ahh. So I did have those tiles then. I was pretty sure I have both the input and output to make, so I would have given you the input (which has just come from WM). I'll flip the tiles I give you in future.
 If you haven't already, I'd recommend getting into the idea of using scripts. You might already be au fait with them, but it can save oodles of time. If you need any advice in that regard Robes is your man. I've got scripts here. I do have another option here now of using CS6 automation which can record operations. Will be useful for tile operations. i'm using batching to resize and rename images for the website. In fact, I really must try track down a Photoshop tiling script, or something. Surely there must be something out there.

//thanks to Robes for clearing that up- yeh, of course, it's the target apps

 
monks

[Redrobes]

Scripts - yeah good point dont I have that exact script around here....

Ahh yes - lets see how this forum handles zips...

EDIT: You can use a text editor find and replace on the name or the directory to make one that is suitable for you.

[Morcrist]

I'll flip the tiles I give you in future.

If by flip you mean rename the y axis, sure. If by flip you mean pixels, please no! They were perfect as-is.

And Robes, yeah. Heh. That is kind've funny if I'm understanding you right. Although the heightmaps monks gave me were 8 x 8 tiles of 5000 x 5000 pixels each so I don't know about any border...? If you meant that he gave me the un-bordered tiles and then I had to add the border back on, then yeah that's a lol for sure. But sure enough, the app (WP in my case) apparently wants 128x128 multiples and it was easier just to resize the dang 5k tiles to 5120 than to cut out the extra bits that WP generated on import.

Checking out Robes' zip now....

EDIT: lol yeah, that's exactly what I was going to need to do by hand and even addresses the "how do I rename y0 to y7 when there's already a y7!" problem I knew I'd run into. Heh, thanks!