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Author Topic: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?  (Read 131303 times)

Redrobes

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2014, 05:25:14 pm »

Yes, try MeshLab its very good at handling large models. Also, if these files are so big then its likely that they are objects made up of loads of cubes which is not ideal. However you can just take the overall point cloud from all the cubes and mesh out a skin over it. See if you can zip an OBJ file on the forum and lets see what it looks like. Blender will also load in obj files no probs. Theres also 3DExplorer and Wings3D will also do it.
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monks

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2014, 07:57:16 pm »

Awesome!  :) I've got 3DS Max here so can always open it in that as well. Is it available for download?

//Nice one downloading now!

monks
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 08:06:46 pm by monks »
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monks

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2014, 08:31:04 pm »

Without the textures in Max...

http://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=843.90

monks
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Morcrist

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2014, 04:30:09 am »

Helm's Deep. It's like 10x smaller than Minas Tirith (2 Mb). EpicQuestz over on http://planetminecraft.com did this one. I really liked his Minas Tirith, but I preferred Divici's. Close call though.

Redrobes, Minas Tirith was just huge. Heh. But yeah, you're right...it's modeling every single cube no doubt. But you realize that means that if the scale is right and Outerra supports the ability to collide with models you'll be able to actually WALK inside the buildings? How cool is that? :)

I took a lot of time on Helm's Deep chopping out the ground trying to leave just the structure. Let me know if it's worth it to even worry about that. I figured it'd be a lot easier to "place" into the terrain if there's as little landscape as possible in the actual model.

More coming....

EDIT: Realized models already have their own thread. In the interest of keeping this thread on topic I'll repost my links in the model thread.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 04:38:31 am by Morcrist »
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monks

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2014, 09:22:14 am »

Thanks Morcrist! We can try the Imladris one but it really need a cleft to sit in. At the moment there isn't one on the map. I think I'll use the Lauterbrunnen from a dem and try work that in.

I was trying to source a Minas Tirith myself. This one's not for sale until completed apparently.

http://www.render.ru/forum/images/upload/3272471.jpg

You can watch progress here:  http://www.render.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?topic_id=136479&start=3060

Time to head over to MineCraft, reg and say hello! :)

monks
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Redrobes

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2014, 07:15:44 pm »

I DL'ed MT and ran it up on MeshLab. It was a bazillion polys so I tried to cut it down. But I was also doing medem tiles at the same time and my PC got to about 80deg C so I had to cut it off. I think its possible to cut that model down to something which still looks like a good place holder but with 100K or less polys. But its big model to deal with.
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monks

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2014, 08:41:40 pm »

Do you think it's best doing that in MeshLab or Max?

 I'm probably going to build minas Tirith myself at some point. I can't see anyone volunteering to do it and it's the centre piece of the entire map really. Ennecap was offered $3000 for it and he didn't sell it, so there's no chance I'm paying that. I'd rather do it myself and learn Max in the process. I think I'll be blocking it out to begin with so it'll be possible to model it as a group venture. I have the ref map that he used- spoke to him today- and he gave me some tips. He said that he might struggle to finish his as he's created a problem for himself by not building it modularised. So texturing he said is going to be a big problem. He also said that with a Quadro and 32 GB it grinds to a crawl- He showed me and he was getting about 2 fps as he panned around. In fact I think it'd be better to build something like that in AutoCad or something. I was always going to approach it modularised anyway, down to door frames, windows and such, so that just reinforces my opnion.
 Anyway that's for the future, for now we can trim the model down or use one of the simpler ones knocking about on Google Warehouse, etc. I was considering separating the model into tiers, but it'd still be WAY above the 65K vertices limit or whatever it is for single model in Outerra. I got 2.3 million vertices here- so that's what 700K tris is it? 700K/7 = 100K. Pyton can clarify what that is.

monks
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 08:45:17 pm by monks »
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Morcrist

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2014, 05:13:14 am »

Yeah, wow. If Outerra only handles 65k vertice models...heh. You know the exporter I found lets you select which portion of the minecraft level you want to export. But still...dang. What's 65k into 2.3 mil? 35? Lol!

You know I'm looking at the exporter and the export options. It's got a checkbox for 'Create a separate object for each chunk'. A chunk in minecraft is a 16x16x256 collection of blocks. My level for Minas Tirith was 512x512 I believe, which comes out to 256 chunks.

I have no idea what the term 'object' means though, in terms of these modeling programs. You should probably take a look at the program. It's pretty nifty.

How can the guy make money off duplicating a copyright protected work anyway? Sounds fishy. You would think the most he could hope to gain from it is notoriety. Which of course could translate for him into the same thing ($).

I really don't like the movie version in any case, preferring something like this, and this. But of course that's just personal book-centric preference. This also contained some interesting info. For example the bottom-most circle-wall was made out of the same black indestructible rock Isengard was made out of. The rest of the walls were white. Nasmith even made a version of it with the "correct" walls. Each of the 7 tiers was 100 feet higher than the one below it. It's estimated that the diameter of the bottom-most circle-wall was ~3000 ft.

Anyway, I really want to take a stab one day (in Minecraft) at making it too. Black wall and all. :P

Redrobes, I don't see where you ever responded to my question regarding redistributing the 8 bit greyscale heightmap tiles monks made available to me if anyone ever asks (no one has at this point). Monks said he didn't mind with proper creditation, but that it was a democracy. :)

What say you?



« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 05:15:15 am by Morcrist »
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PytonPago

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2014, 07:41:08 am »

I think the "object" refers to "meshes". Actually, the 64k vertices limit is for individual meshes - of witch a model can have even thousands , so you just have to split the model into multiple, 64k max, meshes, then OT importer can handle it.

As for MT - thanks for interesting reading and images. Whyte a near half kilometer, it should be considered a skyscraper ... (our country highest (AND 2 OR 3-TH LARGEST IN INNER CAPACITY) castle is Orava http://static3.depositphotos.com/1007429/239/i/950/depositphotos_2394354-Orava-castle-Slovakia.jpg ) and it has just 112 meters above the river (starting from 20 maybe). Hard to grasp the size and internal structure ...

There is also an interesting Hungarian site white some city schematics here : http://olvasas.opkm.hu/portal/felso_menusor/konyv_es_neveles/a_szimmetria_szerepe_a_tolkieni_utopiaban
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 07:47:49 am by PytonPago »
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We are still undeveloped as long as we don´t realize, that all our science is still descriptive, and than beyond that description lies a whole new world we just haven´t even started to fully understand.

monks

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2014, 10:58:58 am »

 I think he's primarly doing it for his portfolio. He was bemoaning the Ukrainian economy- a lot of political unrest on those parts apparently. He's doing freelance architectural visualisations but want to get into compositing. He wants to upsticks to Canada. But yes, that's the point, it's very obviously based on the movies. You can't make money from this stuff, whether it's based on the movies or not...It'd be awesome if he offered us a 1/4 res model or something. I'd even offer him $ for that.

 I mailed the guy who has the model for the original Minas Tirith project on CGTalk. He's selling a render of it on TurboSquid for $20 and there's a comment form the artist saying "I couldn't upload the model as it's 180 mb" or something. That sounds to me like a back door, telling folks, I have the model, contact me and offer me $.  ;D  I could be wrong, but it seems a bit pointless to be selling a single render (not even multiple views of the model) on there....

 Nah, in the end, the only way is to do it yourself, although I can understand you wanting to use our terrain Morcrist- just like we want to use someone else's Minas Tirith heh. Anyway, the terrain's far from perfect so you can go on to still do a lot of alterations and tweaks to it. I'd prefer it everyone got together and made one map, one Minas Tirith- all to shockingly good levels of expertise. That's the ideal, but the world ain't like that. And I guess a large focus of talent and interest like that would more likely invoke a C&D anyway. I also like plurality as well, I don't like it when a group of people start to think that their's is the only way to do something. LoTR is a book, a masterpeice, but it's not brain surgery- what I mean is, have a perspective, it's not going to save you life on the operating table. So have fun with it. The films are the films and the books are the books. They're different. I love the films. I love the books more. But bear in mind Tolkien couldn't do everything to the standards/knowledge he wanted to.
 I think the MineCraft community is pretty cool for their openess to share their models. I guess that there's an element of well they're not full CG quality models, so selling them is not really an obvious option. Not that I'm criticising the modellers on there- I've seen loads of freaking amazing models, not least the M-E stuff.
 I've always liked Naismith. I think out of all of the artists I've seen he has this kind of old story book feel to his work. CG is not even on the horizon. I think stylistically he's my favourite Tolkien artist.
 Yes, Fonstad had the city walls at about 945m, the films at 1207m. I think Nasimith's is at the Fonstad end, probably wider. Fonstad used the tower of Ecthelion's width as compared to the Tolkien sketch I think. She imagined that, knowing the height of the tower, a width of anything greater than 150 feet would make the spire less a "spike" as described, but more squat. Extrapolating from that, she got the overall city dimensions. It's open to question especially since she's going off a really rough sketch, but it's a sound process.
 At 1000 feet high that's some impressive bit of masonry :-D that pic Pyton recalls a castle I went to recently in Yorkshire called Skipton castle. It's a very similar outlook, although it's not quite as high as that- maybe 150 ft. But the views from the castle rooms were amazing. Imagine what a 1000 feet loks like??  :o
 I like the prow, the way it goes up at the end, more for artistic, naturalistic reason. It's more romantic. I like the prow in the films as well for practical reasons- you would really want to be able to look out over the lands from a good vantage. I think the reasoning would be, if they're capable of mining and building that city, then they'd be capable of levelling off that prow at the end for better views.//ah I see it's a man made structure so that's irrelevant.
 Yes the black wall needs to be in there obviously!

We'll either have to cut the model up into pieces or use a simpler one off Google Warehouse or something. I'd rather try a combination of simplify and cutting it up. I'll try a mesh decimation later in Max, see if I can get anything decent out of it.
 I think distributing the terrain is fine- I think make it clear on the link page that an exchange of models for terrain is the idea here, or that we're looking for models. Maybe some folks will come over an offer something. ;)

monks
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 01:31:43 pm by monks »
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Morcrist

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2014, 04:49:59 pm »

Exported another Minas Tirith with the "create object for each chunk" selected. Let me know if it does anything different.

Here.
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monks

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2014, 08:19:00 pm »

Hey Pyton, first map I've ever seen of Gondolin...!

Great stuff! There's more vertices but it's a bigger model. It chunks them all up just nice. Max runs out of memory if I try to open them all up as separate chunks. I can open them up as a single mesh, and in two halves as separate chunks.

 That links looks good btw. With me not having MineCraft I need a way to convert the Minecraft format. I'm guessing that does the trick. I managed to download a couple of models without registering. Gonna try regging again shortly.

Models we need most:

Barad Dur
The Shire...something, anything...
Bree would be nice.
As would Weathertop. A single tower will be good enough for that.
Rivendell is a tricky one.
Argonath. I've seen models on Google Warehouse I'm sure.
Isengard. That's a popular one. Preferably one with the Ring, not just the tower.


We'er just finishing off the texture for the beta 1 biome run at the moment. Should have a new map release for Outerra soon!

monks

« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 09:11:46 pm by monks »
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Morcrist

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2014, 09:18:49 pm »

Lol! So much for keeping this thread on-topic.

Isengard.

I chopped out most of the terrain. The piece missing from the ring is where a mountain spur jutted inside it. The inside of the ring also represents an earlier period from the books. Much cooler period, but I can find one without vegetation if you'd like. Probably need to chop it out anyway since Outerra has awesome vegetation. It was just the one I had so I'll get another soon.

EDIT: Yeah sorry. I'm an idiot. I'm cutting out the vegetation now.

When can someone get one of these into Outerra so we can see if they're navigable? As in, walk-around-in-able?

« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 09:23:03 pm by Morcrist »
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Redrobes

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2014, 10:05:01 pm »

Outerra has a 64K poly limit so either it needs remeshing to that or it needs cutting into chunks. I had a look at Minas Tirith and it was cool but big. I tried to make it smaller but I had to bail on it. I will try again tho. I have never yet imported a 3D model into outerra so I need to learn this too. I think maybe you need the full demo but I am barely able to run the demo on my machine. In fact I have not yet ran MeDem with these new biomes..... sad huh !!!
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monks

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Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2014, 10:20:51 pm »

Time for an upgrade!

Importing models is not that difficult but I only ever tried with single meshes. I think Pyton might be the man for getting multiple chunks in there.
 Going to have to learn though. I've got ideas about using City Generator. It's the only fecking way we're going to fill this landscape LOL

We need something for the Shire really if were starting the vid from there. I found this- looks interesting: http://www.mcmiddleearth.com/media/michel-delving.7/

Once we get this terrain settled in next run, and get this biomes map spot on, I'll be getting down and dirty with Max. Minas Tirith first up I think. Gonna have to move a crate load of crap off C drive, so probably move Make over onto 1 TB E drive or something. Plans, plans...
Can't wait or Occulus Rift btw- those mountains are going to look massive in that...that's a really popular vid for Outerra- I added the head up about OT support in our YT channel today- I think people as pretty stoked about that.

 GTS code for generating glaciers and lava flows would be cool to try out as well!

monks
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:42:51 pm by monks »
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