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Messages - monks

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61
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 06, 2014, 01:16:15 pm »
Problem with WM bmp tile output confirmed.
 It did the same thing again with another output. It could be any of the following:
WM version. I can try another.
flipper device which flips the tile vertical axis. Necessary because of the import tile set. There does seem to be an issue within WM with tile coherency after the flipper in the network. Again, this bug could be version dependent.
bmp format. try another.

The worst case scenario I think is it's the flipper because that will create work...I could run the perl flip script I've got here actually which would do it in like a milisecond.

i'll take a look at it later on.

monks

62
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 06, 2014, 10:56:20 am »
I'd just got out of bed when I looked at these...I can see it's either Gimp loading them incorrectly or WM export. Have you tried opening say tile 3,2 in Photoshop? It could be WM or  Gimp. I might still have the tmd that I outputted the tiles with..I'll have a look.

monks

63
General Discussion / Re: Multiple Planets
« on: February 06, 2014, 09:01:01 am »
I had the privalege of a sneak peak of Mars yesterday. It looks...well, exactly as you'd think it would if you've seen NASA WorldWind Mars, or other visualisations. But Outerra's will look a lot better at the surface since it has the hybrid fractal details at small scales.

monks

64
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 06, 2014, 08:56:40 am »
Have you opened 3,2 and checked it prior to Gimp?

 It could be the tile export from World Machine was corrupted. Very occasionally it will do something like that. Looks like tile blending.

monks

65
General Discussion / Re: Using Unity for modelling the sites?
« on: February 05, 2014, 05:04:32 pm »
I think that woman just told Larry his gfx card cannot run Outerra...

 Outerra obviously needs some development for this kind of stuff we're doing- with locations and objects but I can think of a ton of other things more important- biomes and clouds. There will be some improvements with the biomes interface which will help us out and it all needs coding. For eg, I think we need more control over the snow placement latitude.
 We've got a lot of improvements to make on the textures/biomes for M-E. The goal is get it looking very close to Earth.
 Yes, rivers will be a big addition and things will really start to come to life when they arrive, but first I think water bodies with multiple heights, lakes will arrive.
 For me the two features I'm most looking forward to are rivers and underground areas. I was thinking a lot about rivers in the last few days and I was considering using other external programs to create them but I returned to my original conclusion that the only way to create them is in the renderer itself. They are sub pixel details and need vector tools- OT especially needs vector. I have a tool in Unity called EasyRoads. That's a very nice tool to use but it would not be good in Outerra- it has no vector import (it doesn't need any because Unity editor is still 32 bit and so terrain sizes are never larger than 8096). For us, it would be extremely useful to be able to import rivers as .shp. I think at some point Cameni is planning to support .shp and he will get huge benefits because the engine could import a vast array of GIS data out there. He'll have to import the river data for Earth in some format. we could export our vectors in other formats too, but I think .shp is the most widely used. I guess it depends somewhat on what Cameni's data sources will be.

monks

66
General Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself!
« on: February 05, 2014, 12:10:41 pm »
I don't think the deadline really applies now. We have a new release coming up, biomes 1.2, and after that we'll have the final terrain we can commit to for 3D models. that will be weeks, not months. ASAHP

monks

67
General Discussion / Re: Road map
« on: February 05, 2014, 11:57:38 am »
We've had terrain 1.0 which was the liited biome support.
 Next release will be 1.2 with improved biomes.

 I'm currently working on making the final adjustments to the terrain so that we can fully commit to making the locations with 3D models. Once we have that in place, we'll be creating the biomes from more real world elevations. :)

monks

68
General Discussion / Re: Using Unity for modelling the sites?
« on: February 05, 2014, 11:54:40 am »
Good point about the terrain LODs if we're using obj for site terrains.
 will it be important for the LODs to match exactly? If they don't will it produce bad visible artifacts/popping? I think it would be closer up.
 I think we should use a combination of terrain patches (written into our World Machine project and then exported and rewritten in a ME-DEM terrain update), and obj patches for areas WITHIN that area.
 
I think recreating the broad features of the terrain to generally fit the large scale features for the area in a terrain height format at full res in say Unity, a terrain modelling program or a 3D package. (larger areas will be difficult in a 3D package though but it is possible to export render areas smaller than tile sizes from World Machine). Then for details which require meshes, such as terrain overhangs, etc, use an obj mesh. I think the trick is to make sure that any terrain mesh .obj never includes the tile edge itself. It it did we'd have more LOD issues to deal with. Or would we? Would we need more than one terrain LOD, surely yes, and they'd have to match OT's LOD...I think. You probably have a better understanding of the details here Pyton.

 So with this division, Outerra engine will effectively handle the LODs for the terrain in the ME-DEM terrain update. Without further development by the devs I can't think of any other way to approach it.


So for terrain changes at larger scale workflow will be:

WM core data -> app to alter specific site terrain -> WM core data -> ME-DEM terrain update
 With the constraint that alterations must preserve exactly agreement of elevations across tile boundaries.

For small scale (sub pixel mesh .obj)
WM core data -> app to alter specific site terrain -> Outerra as .otx
 We will need to understand the issues with LOD management in Outerra. Care will have to be taken with matching/blending textures as well.

Rivers is a whole big subject. I don't think the devs are ready for that yet.

 That's the way I'm seeing this so far.... Other questions will have to be answered by the devs.

monks

69
3D Model Places / Re: Potential Games
« on: February 05, 2014, 10:44:11 am »
Yeh, it's always on their mercy....//looks up at tread of giant boot

monks

70
General Discussion / Using Unity for modelling the sites?
« on: February 04, 2014, 04:14:43 pm »
I've just dug out the terrain again from storage and I'm getting things ready for the next terrain release. The problem of the terrain being generally way too high will be fixed. Fixing this means that we'l be able to approach the biome and texture creation using more or less real world figures for how/where to place stuff.
 The next release the terrain will be much more ready to take 3D models.
Having used Unity for a short while I think it would be the ideal choice to refine the terrain at the site locations. It would also be great for creating quick mock ups of the places. It's free as well. World Machine is great for a lot of things but it has no paint tools.
 There's just one problem and that's Unity only supports the .raw terrain format. Our main project data is in hfz format. I've tried the workflow between World Machine and Unity using.raw and there's a slight discrepancy between how they both read/write (not sure which) the elevation values in the file. I don't think there's an easy way to resolve that. So we need another format.  Unity doesn't support anythin else but .raw but I use a 3rd party plugin for Unity called Terrain Composer. I've asked the dev if it would be possible to implement hfz suport. If he does, that would mean that if you also wanted to model some terrain for the sites you'd have to buy a copy of Terrain Composer to use the same workflow as me. There's always the option of people using other workflows between say Crytek or Unreal. All the terrain would be imported back into the main World Machine project so it would have to be tested to make sure there were no discrepancies between how elevation is read/written.
 The other option is for folks to use a 3D package like Blender or Max. World Machine does have obj support. The downside of that is, you don't really have the terrain/veg paint functionality that Unity has nor the procedural vegetation/object placement that Terrain Composer does.
 The discrepancy isn't a big deal necessarily IF we avoided copying over data from the tile edges. We could do that with a combine mask in WM easily enough. Where it really matters though is if you start creating meshes such as river surfaces. Any differences in the terrain at any point will undo all your hard work.

monks

71
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 04, 2014, 04:03:31 pm »
Go go go!!

monks

72
3D Model Places / Re: Potential Games
« on: February 04, 2014, 04:02:41 pm »
Yes, Cameni said it. I don't have any realistic expectations..well no expectations at all that that will happen. This is not being created as a game, if you wanted to find a word to describe it I guess it's more a visualisation, a way for people to walk around in the world. Once Occulus Rift arrives, it will be a much more compelling experience.
 That doesn't mean to say that it's not a good place to hone your skills, build a portfolio or learn some 3D modelling. It is!

monks

73
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 02, 2014, 10:20:51 pm »
Time for an upgrade!

Importing models is not that difficult but I only ever tried with single meshes. I think Pyton might be the man for getting multiple chunks in there.
 Going to have to learn though. I've got ideas about using City Generator. It's the only fecking way we're going to fill this landscape LOL

We need something for the Shire really if were starting the vid from there. I found this- looks interesting: http://www.mcmiddleearth.com/media/michel-delving.7/

Once we get this terrain settled in next run, and get this biomes map spot on, I'll be getting down and dirty with Max. Minas Tirith first up I think. Gonna have to move a crate load of crap off C drive, so probably move Make over onto 1 TB E drive or something. Plans, plans...
Can't wait or Occulus Rift btw- those mountains are going to look massive in that...that's a really popular vid for Outerra- I added the head up about OT support in our YT channel today- I think people as pretty stoked about that.

 GTS code for generating glaciers and lava flows would be cool to try out as well!

monks

74
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 02, 2014, 08:19:00 pm »
Hey Pyton, first map I've ever seen of Gondolin...!

Great stuff! There's more vertices but it's a bigger model. It chunks them all up just nice. Max runs out of memory if I try to open them all up as separate chunks. I can open them up as a single mesh, and in two halves as separate chunks.

 That links looks good btw. With me not having MineCraft I need a way to convert the Minecraft format. I'm guessing that does the trick. I managed to download a couple of models without registering. Gonna try regging again shortly.

Models we need most:

Barad Dur
The Shire...something, anything...
Bree would be nice.
As would Weathertop. A single tower will be good enough for that.
Rivendell is a tricky one.
Argonath. I've seen models on Google Warehouse I'm sure.
Isengard. That's a popular one. Preferably one with the Ring, not just the tower.


We'er just finishing off the texture for the beta 1 biome run at the moment. Should have a new map release for Outerra soon!

monks


75
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 02, 2014, 10:58:58 am »
 I think he's primarly doing it for his portfolio. He was bemoaning the Ukrainian economy- a lot of political unrest on those parts apparently. He's doing freelance architectural visualisations but want to get into compositing. He wants to upsticks to Canada. But yes, that's the point, it's very obviously based on the movies. You can't make money from this stuff, whether it's based on the movies or not...It'd be awesome if he offered us a 1/4 res model or something. I'd even offer him $ for that.

 I mailed the guy who has the model for the original Minas Tirith project on CGTalk. He's selling a render of it on TurboSquid for $20 and there's a comment form the artist saying "I couldn't upload the model as it's 180 mb" or something. That sounds to me like a back door, telling folks, I have the model, contact me and offer me $.  ;D  I could be wrong, but it seems a bit pointless to be selling a single render (not even multiple views of the model) on there....

 Nah, in the end, the only way is to do it yourself, although I can understand you wanting to use our terrain Morcrist- just like we want to use someone else's Minas Tirith heh. Anyway, the terrain's far from perfect so you can go on to still do a lot of alterations and tweaks to it. I'd prefer it everyone got together and made one map, one Minas Tirith- all to shockingly good levels of expertise. That's the ideal, but the world ain't like that. And I guess a large focus of talent and interest like that would more likely invoke a C&D anyway. I also like plurality as well, I don't like it when a group of people start to think that their's is the only way to do something. LoTR is a book, a masterpeice, but it's not brain surgery- what I mean is, have a perspective, it's not going to save you life on the operating table. So have fun with it. The films are the films and the books are the books. They're different. I love the films. I love the books more. But bear in mind Tolkien couldn't do everything to the standards/knowledge he wanted to.
 I think the MineCraft community is pretty cool for their openess to share their models. I guess that there's an element of well they're not full CG quality models, so selling them is not really an obvious option. Not that I'm criticising the modellers on there- I've seen loads of freaking amazing models, not least the M-E stuff.
 I've always liked Naismith. I think out of all of the artists I've seen he has this kind of old story book feel to his work. CG is not even on the horizon. I think stylistically he's my favourite Tolkien artist.
 Yes, Fonstad had the city walls at about 945m, the films at 1207m. I think Nasimith's is at the Fonstad end, probably wider. Fonstad used the tower of Ecthelion's width as compared to the Tolkien sketch I think. She imagined that, knowing the height of the tower, a width of anything greater than 150 feet would make the spire less a "spike" as described, but more squat. Extrapolating from that, she got the overall city dimensions. It's open to question especially since she's going off a really rough sketch, but it's a sound process.
 At 1000 feet high that's some impressive bit of masonry :-D that pic Pyton recalls a castle I went to recently in Yorkshire called Skipton castle. It's a very similar outlook, although it's not quite as high as that- maybe 150 ft. But the views from the castle rooms were amazing. Imagine what a 1000 feet loks like??  :o
 I like the prow, the way it goes up at the end, more for artistic, naturalistic reason. It's more romantic. I like the prow in the films as well for practical reasons- you would really want to be able to look out over the lands from a good vantage. I think the reasoning would be, if they're capable of mining and building that city, then they'd be capable of levelling off that prow at the end for better views.//ah I see it's a man made structure so that's irrelevant.
 Yes the black wall needs to be in there obviously!

We'll either have to cut the model up into pieces or use a simpler one off Google Warehouse or something. I'd rather try a combination of simplify and cutting it up. I'll try a mesh decimation later in Max, see if I can get anything decent out of it.
 I think distributing the terrain is fine- I think make it clear on the link page that an exchange of models for terrain is the idea here, or that we're looking for models. Maybe some folks will come over an offer something. ;)

monks

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