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Messages - Morcrist

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31
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 02, 2014, 09:18:49 pm »
Lol! So much for keeping this thread on-topic.

Isengard.

I chopped out most of the terrain. The piece missing from the ring is where a mountain spur jutted inside it. The inside of the ring also represents an earlier period from the books. Much cooler period, but I can find one without vegetation if you'd like. Probably need to chop it out anyway since Outerra has awesome vegetation. It was just the one I had so I'll get another soon.

EDIT: Yeah sorry. I'm an idiot. I'm cutting out the vegetation now.

When can someone get one of these into Outerra so we can see if they're navigable? As in, walk-around-in-able?


32
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 02, 2014, 04:49:59 pm »
Exported another Minas Tirith with the "create object for each chunk" selected. Let me know if it does anything different.

Here.

33
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 02, 2014, 05:13:14 am »
Yeah, wow. If Outerra only handles 65k vertice models...heh. You know the exporter I found lets you select which portion of the minecraft level you want to export. But still...dang. What's 65k into 2.3 mil? 35? Lol!

You know I'm looking at the exporter and the export options. It's got a checkbox for 'Create a separate object for each chunk'. A chunk in minecraft is a 16x16x256 collection of blocks. My level for Minas Tirith was 512x512 I believe, which comes out to 256 chunks.

I have no idea what the term 'object' means though, in terms of these modeling programs. You should probably take a look at the program. It's pretty nifty.

How can the guy make money off duplicating a copyright protected work anyway? Sounds fishy. You would think the most he could hope to gain from it is notoriety. Which of course could translate for him into the same thing ($).

I really don't like the movie version in any case, preferring something like this, and this. But of course that's just personal book-centric preference. This also contained some interesting info. For example the bottom-most circle-wall was made out of the same black indestructible rock Isengard was made out of. The rest of the walls were white. Nasmith even made a version of it with the "correct" walls. Each of the 7 tiers was 100 feet higher than the one below it. It's estimated that the diameter of the bottom-most circle-wall was ~3000 ft.

Anyway, I really want to take a stab one day (in Minecraft) at making it too. Black wall and all. :P

Redrobes, I don't see where you ever responded to my question regarding redistributing the 8 bit greyscale heightmap tiles monks made available to me if anyone ever asks (no one has at this point). Monks said he didn't mind with proper creditation, but that it was a democracy. :)

What say you?




34
General Discussion / Re: First 3D models in Outerra
« on: February 01, 2014, 04:41:00 am »
Jumping over here from the 8 bit heightmap thread in the interest of keeping things on topic.

Here are the links to the models I've exported from Minecraft so far along with proper credit to their creator.

Minas Tirith, created by Divici and hosted over on http://planetminecraft.com.

Helm's Deep, created by EpicQuestz also over on Planet Minecraft.

That's it so far. I've got a really nice Rivendell by Divici I believe, but it's got a LOT of terrain in the model so I dunno'. I can try and you can tell me if it's viable. I've got work tomorrow so I'll try and get some more done later.

Take care.

35
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: February 01, 2014, 04:30:09 am »
Helm's Deep. It's like 10x smaller than Minas Tirith (2 Mb). EpicQuestz over on http://planetminecraft.com did this one. I really liked his Minas Tirith, but I preferred Divici's. Close call though.

Redrobes, Minas Tirith was just huge. Heh. But yeah, you're right...it's modeling every single cube no doubt. But you realize that means that if the scale is right and Outerra supports the ability to collide with models you'll be able to actually WALK inside the buildings? How cool is that? :)

I took a lot of time on Helm's Deep chopping out the ground trying to leave just the structure. Let me know if it's worth it to even worry about that. I figured it'd be a lot easier to "place" into the terrain if there's as little landscape as possible in the actual model.

More coming....

EDIT: Realized models already have their own thread. In the interest of keeping this thread on topic I'll repost my links in the model thread.

36
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: January 31, 2014, 05:13:03 pm »
Guess what?! Found something to export minecraft maps to .obj files. And it worked! I created a ~140 MB obj of Divici's Minas Tirith. I'm uploading it to my website now. Will provide a link when it's done in case you guys can do anything with it. Note that I'm not uploading the textures right now, just the obj.

Although I've been downloading obj files viewers with no luck so far. On my third one. First one crashed. Second one didn't do anything. Third one got to 52% then hung. Wtf.

Does anyone know of a solid (free) obj viewer that can handle 140+ MB file sizes?

I'm really excited to see what this would look like in Outerra.

EDIT: Found an old post from Redrobes suggesting MeshLab. That did the trick.

EDIT: I'm an idiot. Re-uploading as a ZIP file. Derp. Cuts size from like 140 MB down to 20, and WITH the textures. I was checking it out in MeshLab...it modeled every little room and everything. Would be really cool to see this in Outerra and walk around in it possibly, if it could be scaled correctly.

EDIT: http://morcrist.com/files/minecraft/MinasTirith.zip

37
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: January 31, 2014, 03:55:13 pm »
monks, Redrobes, what are your thoughts on me sharing those greyscale tiles you exported if anyone asks? Nobody has, as of yet, but I'd like to know how you'd feel about me uploading them to my website for anyone to download.

Completely up to you.

Thanks, and take care.

EDIT: Oh, and as far as exporting some buildings from Minecraft maps...how would that be useful for you guys? I mean, it's in a proprietary format as far as I know (.schematic). How would you go from Minecraft blocks to a 3D model? I can't find anything after a quick search, but I dunno'.

38
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: January 31, 2014, 03:27:50 am »
My apologies for being lazy, monks. Here are the relevant tiles (in jpg format to save space) so you can see 1) what I'm talking about re: the "striations", and 2) the before and after using PSP's stretch function.

Before and after...

       

I really like the results, speaking from in-game of course. As I said, the image on the left produced plains west of the Misty Mountains at a height around 100 blocks (out of 255) with the cloud level only 28 blocks higher. The image on the right produced plains at around 50 blocks. Doesn't sound like much but it makes a huge visual difference in game. :D

Also note the striations in the Misty Mountain range. Notably the long, uninterrupted valley extending from the top of the tile all the way down to Isengard. In addition the spurs almost seem like they're uniform in angle. To a large degree at least, they appear to mostly extend from the ridges in the same directions. Contrast that to this picture of a RL mountain range in Colorado, where the spurs seem more random in formation. Or do they? lol maybe it's just me. Feedback appreciated.

For the record, in game it looks nice. I'm not gonna' lie. Just something bothers me and it may just be me.

Here are some in-game screens of the area where the west gate of Moria should be. I've added some trees and a door to locate it...



The last is a pic of the minimap of the area. Sorry I haven't explored all of it yet. It shows where the west gate would be, and the east gate which would be a little to the west of the lake on the right (Kheled Zharam?). Just noticed it has some artifacts on the west end. I just imported part of this one DEM tile, so that's where Minecraft started auto-generating extra terrain.

The 2nd screenshot shows a bit of the scale standing at gate level (height around 70) looking at the peak above (height around 180). The Sirannon (river flowing down from the west gate) was just a placeholder job. I'm going to set my map in the 3rd age, around the time of the Fellowship for continuity-sake.

Of course the dirt/mossy stone/stone/snow on the mountains leaves a lot to be desired. I just picked some sensible height values and made it use those blocks if the map at a given spot was >= that height. I'd like to eventually at least attempt something in the vein of this gentleman's fine work as far as detailing the mountains. This guy is just awesome. Note that he's using a custom texture pack that gives more variations in the stone blocks, but still! Sweet!

Enough for now. Laters!

EDIT: Forgot to answer your questions. World Painter takes the BMP, which is an 8 bit (greyscale) heightmap, and imports it straight into a minecraft format. If in the BMP a pixel = 0 (solid black), then the block at that x/y gets placed at height=0. If the pixel = 255 (solid white) then the block at that spot gets placed at height=255. So there's no sampling per se. What determines WHAT block gets placed at that height is up to you on import. As I mentioned I chose a handful of parameters that basically takes any height less than say 100 and makes it grass, anything from say 100-128 would be dirt, 129-150 would become mossy stone, etc.

But yeah, having only 256 possible heights results in some low fidelity landscape. Quite fun and playable though!

As far as cutting out some buildings from minecraft maps...yes indeed. That's exactly what I was doing prior to getting DEM data from you guys. I was taking mapmaker's works that they've made publicly available (http://planetminecraft.com for example), opening them up in MC Edit (another Minecraft world editing tool - think less paint, more CAD) and cut and pasting structures out of them. I would then import the structure into the part of the ME map I wanted to put it in. All super easy to do stuff, just time consuming especially on low end hardware.

39
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap [for Minecraft]?
« on: January 30, 2014, 06:05:25 am »
Figured out a way to get much better contrast between mountains and plains in the BMP before importing into World Painter. Paintshop Pro has a Histogram function called 'stretch'. It preserves the highs while darkening the lows. This serves to keep the high, majestic mountains while at the same time lowering the plains. It looked much nicer.

As for rivers, I tried painting water below a certain threshhold, and "walking" it up the slope towards the source one or a few blocks at a time. This looked ok, but not great. Next I'm going to try a lot more prep and actually make the river a couple blocks deep everywhere it's supposed to be, then use the fill command judiciously and see what happens.

Monks, I've noticed odd striations in the x=3 y=4 tile's mountains (which covers Eregion, Moria's west and east gate, Lorien, Fangorn, all the way down to Helm's Deep). Notably the Misty Mountains around Moria and northwards. Why are there so many valleys in the actual range? Is that normal?

Just wondering.

40
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap?
« on: January 29, 2014, 02:39:36 am »
D3Souz4, hey man. Really nice work. Very impressive. I'd love to try and import some of your structures into a map once I get monks/robes heightmaps ran through World Painter. It's really exciting to me to be able to try and create a map of NW ME based off of a real-world modeled elevation map. To be able to have awesome structures like the ones you created would just be icing on the cake.

I was working with thebearman85's massive middle-earth map for starters, and trying to import various mappers' works into it. I'm seriously anal about a lot of things in life, especially Tolkien, which led me to being a little dissatisfied with a couple of things he was doing (not that his work thus far isn't awesome!) But that led me to coming up with the bright idea of begging the ME-DEM guys for something I could use that might be a little more realistic. :P

My main problem with importing structures was the fact that the mappers used flat world to showcase their structure (i.e., using almost the entire 0-255 height range). This ended up in me not being able to fit the structure into a real world modeled map without scaling it down. Take Divici's Minas Tirith over on Planetminecraft. Epic, right? Well, when I scaled it down to 50-75% I took a huge fidelity hit. Parts of stairs were missing, walls were gone, etc., etc. Really frustrating. Same with Isengard.

It looks like the structures in your map, however, are built into the existing topography. This would probably work out great.

Anyway yeah, really exciting to see somebody else that has worked on something like this! It looks like you were coming more from a movie angle than the books? I plan on trying to do my own Minas Tirith based on the books and some paintings by Nasmith. And Moria. I want my Moria to be as close to the books as possible. I have a serious pet peeve about how PJ portrayed Moria in the movies. Makes me angry just thinking about it. Bleh.

Gonna' try and fiddle with those BMPs some more. I really want to get a methodology working that produces nice, believable rivers that run downhill. :)

Take care.

41
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap?
« on: January 28, 2014, 12:21:34 pm »
Ahh, gotcha'. I couldn't help but notice how high the plains were in x=5 y=3. Between the Lonely Mountain and the Iron Hills to the east the plains looked like around 100 or so high (out of 255). Clouds are hardcoded to 128 blocks high, so you're standing on the plains with clouds only 30 blocks (~100 feet) above you. The Lonely Mountain only went up to about 180. I realize with only 8 bits of height to work with things are going to be squashed together, and it's not a problem. In Minecraft, standing at the base of Erebor looking up it still looks like a mountain.

But I wonder what it would look like with better contrast between low lying and mountainous areas. How much effort would it be to export the same BMP tiles with the older "video" data set? Or do you think it wouldn't even be worth it? Plus I hate to think of you spending a large amount of time doing anything for me since I'm basically just mooching off of you guys. Heh. Not that I'm not supremely appreciative!

Anyway, any chance you could export the river and road masks for just x=5, y=3 and let me see if they would even be useful? If you can't export just one tile then don't worry about it. I can hand paint them in myself using a topo overlay.

And you adding rivers, that makes sense.

Take care!

42
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap?
« on: January 28, 2014, 05:46:37 am »
Is there no 8 bit compressed format? Robes will know.
Actually, the tiles you outputted were in 24 bit BMP format. They were 72 Mb each (5000x5000x3 bytes). I'm lowering them to 8 bit as I work on them so that's helping (24 Mb vs 72, or 1.5 Gb vs 4.6).

I guess you'll have the best Middle-Earth terrain in MineCraft now...well in terms of sourced real world terrain.
Heh, thanks to you guys' blood, sweat and tears. But I doubt I'll have anything remotely playable for quite some time. I've been playing around with the tile that has the Lonely Mountain and Withered Heath (x=5, y=3), which brings me to...

I'll send you the rivers and roads as well if you can use them.
How does that work, data wise? I mean, the tiles you sent me are 0->255 elevation maps, basically. What would a "river" tile be composed of? Or a "road" tile?

I saw painting of rivers by hand. Is there no way to use an image overlay over the terrain so that you can use it as a reference?
Oh sure. World Painter allows overlays, and I've used them to great effect in my tinkering.

But I'm wondering something at this point. I've imported the x=5, y=3 tile into World Painter as a heightmap. I can see where, for example, the river coming down from the Lonely Mountain flows down into the Long Lake and out the southern end of it. But it almost looks like the riverbed coming from the mountain was eroded, which is fine and natural looking, but the actual lake itself looks gouged out of the terrain at a uniform depth. As if it were done by hand. Likewise the large swamp to the west of the northern end of Long Lake. How did you guys actually do the rivers and lake beds, etc.? I'm thinking that since you weren't concerned with actual voxels you didn't concern yourself with what was UNDER the water. Heh. You just wanted something that would render correctly as a body of water, yes? It didn't matter how deep the lake was, or the swamp, etc. Just my guess.

Anyway, nothing I can't touch up in the BMP before importing.

There also seem to be some other eroded looking "riverbeds" in places that the topo Middle-Earth map doesn't have. I was curious about those as well. For example the long, thin riverbed that seems to originate east/southeast from the Lonely Mountain (almost halfway to the Iron Hills) and then flows south/southeast all the way down to where it finally meets up with the Celduin. Again, I can't find it on the topo and was just curious why it's there? :)

128 GB...? Crikey...filling up that board might be expensive!
Yar, but I could start with 32 Gb and work my way from there budget permitting. Heh heh. And there's the rub. It's not permitting right now, nor for the forsee-able future.

Thanks again! Take care.

43
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap?
« on: January 27, 2014, 04:45:14 am »
OMG!

That is awesome. Monks, I can't thank you enough. I really, really appreciate that. It took me a while to figure out what I was looking at with it divided into 8x8 chunks, but once I did...sweet!

Only thing is, this work has really underscored the age of my hardware. With even 8 Gb of ram I keep running into Out of Memory errors using my (dated) Paintshop Pro 7.04. Heh. Things are slow too. My cpu is only a dual core Pentium (not even an I-xxx). I created a new 40000x5000 image to mosaic a row of your 5k chunks into and only realized PSP maxed out at 32767 width when I got to the last 2 chunks in the row. Derp.

I've been drooling over MSI's 128 Gb motherboard on newegg.com....

But yeah man. Super awesome! I may have to just create the chunks in minecraft using World Painter one chunk at a time and then use MC Edit to stitch the chunks together. Soon as I get something in-game I'll link a pic or something.

You're the greatest. And crediting you guys is the absolute LEAST I can do. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Take care!


44
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap?
« on: January 26, 2014, 12:04:58 pm »
Any image file format, actually. Whatever is easier? BMP would be fine.

I really appreciate you taking the time to do this for me. Can't wait to see what it looks like!

Thanks, and take care.

45
General Discussion / Re: 8 bit Heightmap?
« on: January 25, 2014, 02:31:50 am »
The easiest thing for you guys. Scratch what I said about Global Mapper. My 2 week trial runs out Feb 3, but I just found out I apparently forgot to read about a hard limit on the number of exports I can do. Woopsie!

So yeah, whatever image format is easiest/most space efficient for you. I've got paintshop pro so I can convert to whatever I need. TGA, BMP, JPG even. Any will do.

You mentioned '40K', and '10k' again. What exactly do those mean in terms of resolution? I keep thinking in terms of pixels. Is that right? 40,000 x 40,000 pixels? Or is that kilometers? 40 km? I'm clueless! Heh.

Meanwhile a few days ago I actually opened up NW Middle-Earth in paintshop pro and started a new image. It's about 8000x5000 pixels and represents an area around 1700x1200 miles. Uhh, that'd make it like 1 pixel ~= 360 meters I think since 90 pixels was 20 miles on the map. I plan on upscaling it at least 3x to 24000x15000 and hopefully 48000x30000.

So anyway I immediately started a new layer filled with black and began tracing the coast with a 32 (0=bottom, 255=max height in minecraft). After a few minutes of tracing the coast I stopped, zoomed out...rofl. I had only gotten to like the Sea of Lhun, starting from the top northwest part of the map. Tedious. I eventually finished the coast last night. It's just a very small taste of the work involved in doing something like an entire map from scratch, I'm sure, but I've got a good imagination! Super kudos to you guys once again. /salute

I plan on doing some mountains tonight starting with the peaks and then working my way down. I don't like what I've seen in some other minecraft versions of NW ME where the water is all at the same level. Like globally. I know in real life water doesn't make 1 meter (1 block) drops as it flows to the sea, but I'd like to model the fact that the height above sea level gradually goes up from the coasts towards the mountains. And consequently you've got bodies of water like whatever lake feeds the falls of Rauros at a much higher elevation than say, the Anduin. And rivers would drop a block at a time over their concourse as they head towards sea level.

Just gabbing at this point. I'd love to see what I could do/how much time it could save me in my effort to get something into minecraft by using some of your data, so whenever you're able I'd be much appreciative!

And speaking of data, what did YOU guys use for your source way back? From what I've read online you guys are using the same source as that link above? ICE's MERP module maps? Just curious.

Thanks in advance, and take care.

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